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Foreign Lorazep@m & Temazep@m vs. US Generics


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Interesting, but too many variables to make this any better than an anecdote (everyone reacts differently to different classes of benzos, as we've all seen time and again).  Anyway:

1: I haven't used Lor@zep@am in probably 4 years, since my one reliable supplier for the (W) 2mg yellows disappeared - Have seen too many tales of bunk (W's), even blistered from other places to bother throwing any money at them (TT was an exception, but there were other things I'm more interested in there than Lor@zep@m, so I never tried theirs).  I just recently received a good-sized handful of Hemoph@rm 2.5's, so I decided to use one of those for sleep last night rather than the Tem@zep@m I usually use (I'm prescribed two 15mg capsules of generic Tem@zep@m, since Tricare won't cover the 12.5mg CR version of Zolp, and the 10mg generic Zolps are great for getting me to sleep, but then I'm awake at 3AM and find myself unable to get back to sleep - Too worried to take another Zolp because I might oversleep).  So I took a Lor@zep@m at about 9:30PM (my usual bedtime is 10PM or so, M-F I have to be at work by 6AM), expecting it to work roughly like X@n@x - 10-15 minutes to kick in, droopy eyes, bedtime.

Man, was I wrong.  By 9:45PM I've got this whopper of a foggy buzz, like the one you get 10 minutes after you have that last shot of Tequila that you knew you shouldn't have had when you had it, but you did it anyhow - I probably could have gone on to bed and been asleep in no time, but it is long and between times for me these days to get a nice buzz, since I don't drink or partake of the devil's lettuce, and my VA disability is for hearing loss, so the strongest PK we keep in the house is Motrin - And of course after years of experimenting with benzos after my Doc first put me on X@n@x, then V@lium, then Clon@zepam, then finally back on X@n@x, I'd probably have to take your standard benzo by the handful (I'm embarrassed to admit here how much X@n@x I go through on a typical day) to feel anything other than "normal".  So I kicked back and caught up on a couple of episodes of "American Horror Story" (season 2 - I'm way late getting to this one) on Netflix, which, with that buzz, was...fun.  When I did go to bed around 11:30PM I was still stumbling like a drunken wretch, my wife just shook her head, figuring I'd taken a X@n@x AND my Temazep@m, which I'll do on nights I'm worried I won't sleep the entire night through - Barely managed to brush my teeth, laid my head down, and it was lights out until 10AM this morning.  Best night's sleep I've gotten in likely 6 months or so, with all of the stress at work.

2: I've been on prescribed Temazep@m (two 15mg capsules at bedtime) for about a year, and aside from one evening when I forgot I had already taken it and took a second 30mg dose (That was pretty fun, one of those run off at the mouth buzzes where you cant' shut up), it has never struck me as anything but a pretty solid sleeping aid - I get between 6-7 hours of solid sleep on 30mg, with no waking up in the middle of the night.  However, I recently came into some loose green 30mg Temazep@m eggs, sent mistakenly by my ADHD med vendor, who kindly said "don't worry about paying for them, you didn't order them, enjoy", and of course since I had them, I immediately substituted one of the 30mg "eggs" for my prescribed U.S. generic capsules, and let me tell you, unless you're prepared, you don't want to pave that cow path.  I always try to read a few pages of whatever book I'm currently on on my Kindle Paperwhite when I get tucked in, and can usually get through 8-10 pages before I fall asleep - But that freaking egg made the letters on the screen so blurry they might as well have been hieroglyphs - And of course that fascinated me so much I got out of bed and went to my basement PC with the 28" HDMI monitor and cranked up the Kindle app, brought up my bookmark, and beheld the same thing, only bigger.  By now of course, I've made the mistake of (unwittingly) fighting my way through the sleep effect, and am left high as a kite for two hours, which I spent in a vain attempt to alphabetize our DVD / Bluray collection.  The effect didn't last long, perhaps three hours, tops, and when it wore off I was sleepy enough to go to bed and fall asleep.

So anecdotally, at least the way MY brain chemistry reacts to Lor@zep@m, and considering I have zero tolerance for it at this point, the difference between 2.5mg of it and, say, 4mg of X@n@x was like the difference between an 81mm mortar round and a 155mm artillery round - BOOM.  Best sleeping pill ever, I'm going to have to be very careful to ration these for nights when I want a smooth buzz to watch Netflix with before bed, and then a solid 7 hours sleep.

As for the eggs vs. the U.S. generic capsules, there's just no comparison.  The script I pick up at CVS is "meh", does what it's supposed to do, but barely - The same dosage, 30mg, in an "egg" felt like I imagine a hallucinogen must feel.  Another one to keep stashed away and rationed.

So this brings up the age-old questions:

1. Are European generic benzos just...better than U.S. generic benzos?  I've held for years that G@lenik@ manufacturing standards must have guidelines mandating an extra .3 - .5mg of active ingredient be included in their products, they are simply the best I've encountered since I first discovered them in '99 or so.  But that doesn't explain why as a rule, name any U.S. generic benzo you can think of, and there's not just one, but several better ones available from Europe - And not just from G@lenika, lest you think I'm a shill for their meds, but from several other manufacturers as well, any of which I would choose over a U.S. generic. I mean these "eggs"?  Why on earth would U.S. pharmacies dispense crap like the capsules they do (yes, I know, harm reduction, possibility for abuse, we've all heard the horror stories about people's arms falling off in Scotland), when there are other nations who routinely prescribe better medications and trust their populations to use them responsibly?  And the Hemos?  They're like a gift from God for chronic insomniacs who also have GAD...Don't tell me it's not possible to produce a medication of the same quality here in the states.

There's a lot of information out there about experiences with your classic benzos - V@lium, X@na@x, Clon@zep@m, etc., but I see a lot of folks trashing Tem@zep@m and Lor@azepam as useless garbage - And while some people may indeed experience them as such due to their own brain chemistry, there can't be that many of them out there, or the Pharma firms would quit making these meds - They aren't in business to lose money.  So here's one more anecdote to add to the pile of information regarding these meds...And a reminder of the eternal question - Why do nations with a fraction of our GDP produce better quality medications than we do?

I dunno.  Feel free to discuss.

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Guest blissopifree 2

I have ALLWAYS found 2mg L0r@zepam esp from pk or India by wyth VERY weak (the orange ones).Then you get the hem0ph@rm 2.5mg or the other European brand available from our exelent eastern European email friend's,they are BY FAR much better and good for helping you drift off to sleep.

Btw if your looking for a good sleep aid you could try 15mg mid@z0l@m but only when REALLY needed as they are a biaatch tolerance and addiction wise.....

Peace 

Bliss....

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Back2Good

Well, friends, I have a mix of Hemofarm 2.5mg and Loram 2.5mg on the way...I really, really like the Hemofarm, but there weren't enough available to fill my entire order, so my Eastern European friend threw in a sufficient number of Lorams to complete the order - So I'll have an effectiveness comparison of the two to post for you in the next week or two.

Knowing myself as I do, it's just a matter of time before I order up a batch of mid@z0l@m (there was a time around '98 or so when I worked nights exclusively and couldn't sleep during the day, and mid@z0l@m was the only thing that worked, and here I find myself on a 2-night per week night shift schedule again).  Loved that it worked, hated that I couldn't remember anything I'd done an hour before falling asleep!

You know that old saw about Infantrymen being able to fall asleep anywhere, anytime, in any position, when the need for sleep comes upon them?  Well, my last day as a full-time acolyte of the Infantry God was 14 years ago, and I'm here to tell you - That old saw is true until about 15 months after you've ETS'd (less, in my case, with my diagnosis of what I'm reluctant to call "PTSD" - It's true that there are some things that once seen, can't be unseen, but my little dust-ups in Panama and Kosovo don't bear comparing to what the soldiers of the past 15 years have seen in the hell of the Middle East, that's PTSD).

Insomnia is a bitch, especially when you know the exact cause for it and realize it's probably never going to go away on it's own.  Thank goodness for dbg and all of the information on dealing with it provided here - I'd sooner donate to this forum and get first-hand anecdotes from fellow sufferers of the affliction and what works for them than pay $10 for a Doctor's visit and be told to practice breathing exercises, or prescribed a med that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't.

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ElectroNymph

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I echo @blissopifree 2 . I have just placed a good sized order for Lorazepam from an Eastern European source. They are cheap, reliable and good quality.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Back2Good

@ElectroNymph - My main man didn't have enough Hemofarma on hand to fill my (relatively) small last order, which just arrived - So I have a good amount of L@oram 2.5's and Hemofarma 2.5's on hand.  The army has places called "Proving Grounds", where they test weapons and equipment - I'm about to become my own "Proving Ground" and compare the two - 5mg of L@ram today, and 5mg of Hemofarma tomorrow.  I shall post the test results here.

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I'll keep this short but sweet - The L@rams are as good (maybe a TINY bit better) than the Hemo's.  Too close to call really, which is why I'm not kicking myself in the butt over having just put in a big Hemo order.

Honestly, they are both better products than any yellow "Wyeth" I've ever tried.  You can't go wrong with either.

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