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Was This A Convulsion/seizure?


Smoka90

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I hate starting topics like this, so sorry if it's a dumb question, but the other night something happened and I think I had a convulsion, at least one, and I want to try and avoid it in the future while not giving up the substances involved (as this is me we're talking about... =/ )

 

So, substances were just pregabalin and kratom. When I take pregabalin, it potentiates my opies so I can get away with taking less with the intention of lowering my tolerance. However, it's still sky high, but this is why I took kratom, thought it would be more likely to lower opi tolerance than Cod or DHC.

 

I've had previous experience with both these substances and dosages at the same time before, and had nothing worse than the occasional jolt. So I started with 450mg pregabalin, about 90 minutes later took about 7-8 grams of red veined kratom. An hour after that I took another 150mg pregabalin. I was having sudden jolts all evening in my whole body, but then I had several mini blackouts, where my memory was lost; this happened 4 or 5 times. All I can be sure of are the effects these blackouts had (as I obviously can't remember convulsing). I ended up knocking two cups of drink off the desk next to me. No memory of this, just looked down and there's ginger beer and rosehip tea everywhere, grand. But what worries me is the injuries I ended up with. I got a nasty gash on my thumb that still hurts 4 days later, like the top layer of skin was torn off, I got a similar one on my chest, this was painful to touch and sent shooting pain through my chest if I touched the gash and my shoulder's absolutely wrecked, really painful to move. I'm thinking this could have been from me thrashing around..? Oh, and weirdly, my tongue hurt like hell and is still painful, perhaps I was biting it?

 

Perhaps stupidly I did the same dose of pregabalin last night, but this time with a lower than usual dose of DHC, 200mg, (not kratom). I monged out, the odd small jolt but no black outs I'm aware of. I was not withdrawing from benzos and have no history of convulsions, but I want to avoid this happening again. I understand pregabalin can cause convulsions, but my dose wasn't *that* high...for some reason I am blaming the kratom, because of all the different alkaloids and the chances of some kind of interaction. I'm also on 45mg mirtazapine every night, but I don't feel that it played a part in this.

 

Crap, I rambled a bit, but this just unnerved me a bit, so any advice or information would be great.

 

=)

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I am no expert smoka, but this does sound like you could have a convulsion or 2. Though it is a very rare side effect compared to the more common brief loss of consciousness. A pregabalin dosage such as that is ironically used for epilepsy! There is cross tolerance with opi@tes/kratom also remember. Hope you don't feel too rotten mate. Maybe take it easy for a while if poss.

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I prefer the brief loss of consciousness angle, but it wouldn't explain the gashes I got or spilt drinks, eep... hmm, it's a weird one...pregabalin may be an anti convulsant, but I've read reports of people having quite severe seizures from it, although the dosages were much higher than 600mg. But I won't let myself go beyond 600mg, I've completely wrecked opies for myself, not going to let the same happen with this.

 

Ideally, I'd just take a benzo like clonaz with it, but I need to have benzos when I don't have pregabalin and vice-versa, that system is keeping more monkeys off my back.

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Yeah, when you put it like that the seizure looks more likely. Any idea what you gashed thumb on, and did you have to pick yourself up from the floor? Finally, i suppose a visit to your doctor is out of the question?

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How scary! I have been there. I would get your butt in for a check up. I am no MD but for me, I would want to make sure nothing else is going on. Glad you are feeling better and that you are here and posting. Hope your injuries heal fast.

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Hmm, going to the doctor's would be weird, I'd have to own up to everything, and he'd just put the convulsion down to substance use, plus he might take me off mirtazapine which would send me spiralling...I don't want to sound like I'm tempting fate, but I doubt it's a severe health condition manifesting itself; there's no history of epilepsy in the family, and as this was just as I was on pregabalin, I do point the finger of blame mostly at that, or the combination of pregabalin with opies.

 

Erm, with my thumb, I'm not sure what I gashed it on, maybe the wall next to my bed, it's pretty rough. But there's a little chunk of skin off, it's healing, but I must have given the wall some welly. Welly...is that a word? It almost sounds a bit rude. It's the gash on my chest that's really perplexed me, it's in the centre between my ribcages. Goes without saying I was wearing a shirt at the time (!), so whatever I did it must have been bad...

 

I don't remember much from the night, just the spilt drinks and being really, really confused...if I had to pick myself up from the floor, I would have forgotten it moments later.

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This is very scary and if it were me I would stop with the pregabalin because once you have a seizure (same with Ultram) it makes you more susceptible to seizures in the future.  This is nothing to mess around with and you were very lucky that you didn't get hurt worse and fall on something that split your head open.  The best way to lower tolerance from anything is to taper down.  The fact that your tongue hurts shows that you very likely did have a seizure.  Please, be careful!!!

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This is very scary and if it were me I would stop with the pregabalin because once you have a seizure (same with Ultram) it makes you more susceptible to seizures in the future.  This is nothing to mess around with and you were very lucky that you didn't get hurt worse and fall on something that split your head open.  The best way to lower tolerance from anything is to taper down.  The fact that your tongue hurts shows that you very likely did have a seizure.  Please, be careful!!!

 

Thanks for the help, I will definitely take on board what you have said. It still baffles me how an anti convulsant could cause what it was designed to treat. But no matter, it's irrelevant. Cutting back or quitting it will be hard, but I will give it my best shot.

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Silver Shadow

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Hi im glad youre ok but honestly it does sound like you're tempting fate. What youve described sounds so dangerous. I actually take an anticonvulsant for bipolar and I have a seizure disorder that if not for the med I probably would have had a seizure by now but neurontin, pregbalin, lyrica and all those anticonvulsants make my seizure disorder worse. Its totally ass backwards but every time ive tried one for nerve pain, I get auras and mini lobe seizures. Combining meds is a very tricky and dangerous thing that I feel should be done by your dr. I think you should see a neurologist bcuz if you didn't have a problem with seizures bfore you do now and thats nothing to mess around with. Please be so careful. And I agree w suzie. Tapering is the safest way to go down. As good as kratom is, its not fda approved and we really dont know where exactly it comes from and if its 100% safe. Especially when taken with other meds.

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Smoka, I can't add any more than what the others have said. This is big time scary. Please please take care of yourself. (This happened to me WD from b3nz0's and I have zero memory of it)

I don't get the pharmacology of it but SS is 100% correct. The pregabalin is back a** wards and we just THINK kratom is safe..

Anyway, take it easy and keep yourself safe. Get help if you need it. Keep us posted so we will know you are okay.

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Thanks for the concern and advice everyone, it really is appreciated. I plan to make a doctor's appointment soon, and the only way to make that worthwhile is by owning up to what I've been taking. I'm only planning this because I've been getting small twitches and jolts (minor ones) the last few days...

 

I'll check back to let you know it all goes.

 

Many thanks again. =)

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Thanks for the concern and advice everyone, it really is appreciated. I plan to make a doctor's appointment soon, and the only way to make that worthwhile is by owning up to what I've been taking. I'm only planning this because I've been getting small twitches and jolts (minor ones) the last few days...

I'll check back to let you know it all goes.

Many thanks again. =)

That's brave of you smoka, and perhaps for the best. You know your own body, if it's not behaving then good idea to get it checked. Let us know how you get on mate, and all the best too.
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Okay, so I've been busy being nerdy and reading up some stuff, I want to get to the bottom of what happened. I thought I may as well relay this information to this forum; it might be useful if anyone is using similar meds and facing similar situations.

 

So pregabalin, I read in two places that doses at and over 600mg are known to paradoxically lower your seizure threshold, whereas lower doses heighten the threshold. This is one aspect; my dose was 600mg, but that on its own would not have caused this, so I think I may have had a mild serotonin syndrome episode, and this, together with the high dose of pregabalin heightening my threshold, tipped me over the edge and caused me to convulse.

 

I read that one of the symptoms of serotonin syndrome is muscle twitching or spasms, which I certainly had. The reasons I think serotonin syndrome played a part is the stupid amount of chemicals I put into my brain. Mirtazapine is a weird one, luckily it's not an SSRI or SNRI, I think they call it a tetracyclic antidepressant, a step up from the tricyclics. I think it's much more broad (and much more effective) than something like Fluoxetine, but it still has definite effects on serotonin levels. I've been on 45mg daily for nearly two years; it's helped blunt my depression but it's fair to say my brain is completely saturated with it by now. I also take 20-30mg of Buspirone most days, just to keep me ticking over; I think this works on serotonin levels too.

 

Buspirone and mirtazapine with pregabalin wouldn't be good, but I think kratom actually tipped me over the edge here. It's a wonderful plant when used correctly, but it really contains a lot of alkaloids, and I'm thinking that a fair few of these might have serotonin affecting chemicals.

 

God, I really am rambling...I guess my point is, I won't be mixing kratom and pregabalin directly, and I will try and dose my mirtazapine as long after I take pregabalin as I can. Tonight, probably stupidly, I took 450mg pregabalin, then my usual fairly hefty dose of c@deen, not really twitching, I feel okay...so I'd say it's safer to mix codeen or better still, DHC, with pregabalin, as opposed to such a broad substance such as kratom.

 

Crapping hell, if you've read all that, here's an imaginary medal - well done! =D No, sorry, I guess I'm just trying to put information out there and warn people to be wary of pregabalin, and if you're on serotonin effective drugs, be extra, extra careful.

 

For now, things seem good. But in future I won't post on here when I'm feeling a bit spaced out. Eep.

 

Meep.

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Silver Shadow

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Did you read that serotonin syndrome is deadly? That is a very dangerous line your walking. If you experience that again you need to go to the er. Im sorry to be so blunt and im not trying to offend you but w serotonin syndrome you are lucky to be alive if that was the case. Maybe you might need to start weening down on the pregbalin? Idk but twitching every day is not ok either. Please please be so careful.

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