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Situation with Subutex


MargUK
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I’ve got myself into a bit of a situation.

6 years ago I was prescribed 0.8 mg Subutex for a small OTC codeine addiction.  The deal was I would be on them for a month - withdrawn the next month.  Half way through the withdrawal month which was a 50% reduction straight away I became very ill and it took a few days to realise it was the withdrawal.  I got the doc to agree to going back up to the full dose then I weaned myself down to 0.4 mg in the following few months but I was still very unwell.  To the extent I had to give up my job.  The following year I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue (CFS).

In 2016 I recovered to a degree and then in 2017 became really ill again - to the extent I became bedbound.  As well as a relapse of the CFS, I discovered I was having an interdose withdrawal reaction to Diazepam which had been prescribed for anxiety (which I now think came from the Subutex but can’t prove that).  Once I realised what was going on I went off it cold turkey and then set about trying to build back up some sort of life.  At this point the 0.4 mg of Subutex was really helping me in the morning so I remained at that dose getting a prescription from the doctor every month (but not seeing him).  

I’ve found the CFS really difficult to live with and 3 years ago began taking the OTC codeine tablets again (max 7 a day, 8 mgs codeine in each but also 500 mgs paracetamol and 30 mgs caffeine) then last year began to feel much more unwell than usual with various symptoms.  Got a blood test and bowel screening test - both ok.  Symptoms still there and didn’t feel right about going back to the surgery when I was still taking these tablets so vowed to try to get off them.  The only way I knew would work was Subutex and (stupidly I see now) I thought maybe if I had already reduced my dosage for a few weeks and could show the doc I was able to do it, it would make my case to go back up to the original dose more positive.

When I was tapering before I had bought 0.2 Temgesic tablets from Jim (Starliterx) and I still had some of these left over although they had expired.  I also had some from when the Pharmacy had given me the generic tablets one month by mistake - these had also expired but were newer so I used them to up my daily dose to 0.8 mg.  It worked to a degree - I was able to get off the evening dose of OTC tablets but not the 3 I took in the afternoon.  Still I was chuffed with that and made an appointment with the doctor.

Because I was going to find the subject difficult to talk about (the appointment is a phone one), I wrote it all out in a letter beforehand so that he would have that before the call and when I read it I realised how manipulative it sounded!  So I changed it to look like I hadn’t started this at all and was just asking to go back up to the 0.8 mg dose to come off the OTC tablets again.  That sounded much better.

In case he said no though I placed an order with Jim again in July as back up.  3 weeks passed.  No order.  Came on here and read all the posts about him and other folks’ orders and my stomach sank.  Shit.  Since then I’ve been on here frantically making a donation, looking for another vendor for bupe but having little success.  I’ve found one UK vendor who has 8 mg tablets and as a last ditch desperate attempt I thought I could buy those.  I realise how crazy that sounds and how impossible it’s presumably going to be to cut them to get anything like 0.4/5 mg bits but that’s how desperate I am.

The appointment is at 2 p.m. this afternoon and the reason I haven’t waited until then is because I’m a complete ball of stress and can’t concentrate on anything so I thought typing all this out might help - plus I need to know what to do if he says no or refers me back to the Drug Clinic in which case I could be waiting months for an appointment.

The thought of being plunged into another fast withdrawal fills me with absolute dread - there’s no way I could cope with that right now.   I have 18 0.2 mg tablets left which expired in 2018 - I’ve tried 2 and they don’t work but would probably stave off withdrawal symptoms nevertheless.

If anyone can think of anything I can do to get myself out of this hole I’d be really grateful - please don’t shout at me or tell me I’m stupid - I know that bit already!😁

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Get 8 mg tabs from @PhoneMedic_UK  and split them is your best bet IMO. Subs are easy to cut up. I use 2 mg daily and it’s easy to half and half again. To make 2 mg. should be easy enough to judge from there. I know people who split them into 8 with a razor so it’s reasonably easy. It’s obviously not very exact though but it should help you if you are not successful with the doctor. I use @PhoneMedic_UK for other meds and he is always next day delivery.

Hope this is some help to you. I’ve never seen anyone selling the very small doses as most want the 8s

Edited by Raskol
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Easiest problem first: if you end up with pills dosed higher than you want, make a solution. You can use a dropper bottle with a dropper that delivers a standard quantity of liquid per drop or per dropper. Alternatively, use more liquid and use a teaspoon or whatnot. Chemicals generally degrade faster in solution than in tablets, so just make enough in to last a few weeks or so. Use vodka as your solvent, or add a little citric acid (baking section) or vitamin C  to help preserve your concoction. Here’s a handy tool for dosing solutions:

https://volume.tripsit.me/

Btw, I strongly recommend avoiding all that paracetamol—it’s hard on the liver!

Is the prescribing doctor an addiction specialist? If not, maybe you could seek one out? Generally, such a doctor, in the name of harm reduction, will want to keep a patient on the replacement therapy as long as necessary so the patient isn’t compelled to seek out alternatives. Ideally honesty will serve you well in such a situation. This forum is a great resource for those denied rational drug policy. Best of luck…

Edited by strungoutinheaven
volumetric dosing tool
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52 minutes ago, Raskol said:

Get 8 mg tabs from @PhoneMedic_UK  and split them is your best bet IMO. Subs are easy to cut up. I use 2 mg daily and it’s easy to half and half again. To make 2 mg. should be easy enough to judge from there. I know people who split them into 8 with a razor so it’s reasonably easy. It’s obviously not very exact though but it should help you if you are not successful with the doctor. I use @PhoneMedic_UK for other meds and he is always next day delivery.

Hope this is some help to you. I’ve never seen anyone selling the very small doses as most want the 8s

Thank you so much! The doctor was useless although he is going to make a referral to the Drugs Clinic for me so I suppose that’s always something - an appointment could take months in the present situation though.

I’ve just placed an order with PhoneMedic so at least that should stop me stressing (apart from figuring out how much microbitcoin to send lol). My only worry is I’ll need to cut the tablets into sixteenths because I only need 0.4 or thereabouts so that might be a bit dodgy but I’ll certainly give it a go!

Starliterx does sell as low as 0.2 mg which is ideal but I doubt I’ll see that order now - it’ll be a pleasant surprise if it arrives though😊

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1 hour ago, strungoutinheaven said:

Easiest problem first: if you end up with pills dosed higher than you want, make a solution. You can use a dropper bottle with a dropper that delivers a standard quantity of liquid per drop or per dropper. Alternatively, use more liquid and use a teaspoon or whatnot. Chemicals generally degrade faster in solution than in tablets, so just make enough in to last a few weeks or so. Use vodka as your solvent, or add a little citric acid (baking section) or vitamin C  to help preserve your concoction. Here’s a handy tool for dosing solutions:

https://volume.tripsit.me/

Btw, I strongly recommend avoiding all that paracetamol—it’s hard on the liver!

Is the prescribing doctor an addiction specialist? If not, maybe you could seek one out? Generally, such a doctor, in the name of harm reduction, will want to keep a patient on the replacement therapy as long as necessary so the patient isn’t compelled to seek out alternatives. Ideally honesty will serve you well in such a situation. This forum is a great resource for those denied rational drug policy. Best of luck…

Thanks so much! The doctor was just a general GP but initially when I went for help with this in 2015 I was referred to a local Drugs Clinic and they prescribed the Subutex, then to make it easier for me, that was then transferred to my local surgery where I get a repeat prescription every month.  Usually over here they want you on the replacement therapy for as short a time as possible - when I first went on it the plan was 4 weeks on then 4 weeks to withdraw so completely off in 2 months! Which is why it went tits up for me. It’s only really luck and falling through the cracks that’s allowed me to keep getting a prescription for 6 years.

The appointment was pretty useless tbh - he didn’t even address the codeine problem at all!! I had to ask but he IS going to make a referral to the Clinic for me so that’s something. However with the current situation, an appointment there could take months. 

I’ve placed an order with PhoneMedic for the 8mg tablets and I’ll try cutting to see how I get on. I’m scared to try liquid dosing in case I get wrong! And then if Jim’s order comes through I’ll switch to the lower dose ones. 

All this stress (and money!) for the sake of changing a prescription from 0.4 to 0.8 mg. It’s madness. 

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9 hours ago, MargUK said:

Thank you so much! The doctor was useless although he is going to make a referral to the Drugs Clinic for me so I suppose that’s always something - an appointment could take months in the present situation though.

I’ve just placed an order with PhoneMedic so at least that should stop me stressing (apart from figuring out how much microbitcoin to send lol). My only worry is I’ll need to cut the tablets into sixteenths because I only need 0.4 or thereabouts so that might be a bit dodgy but I’ll certainly give it a go!

Starliterx does sell as low as 0.2 mg which is ideal but I doubt I’ll see that order now - it’ll be a pleasant surprise if it arrives though😊

Cutting into eighths is actually pretty easy with a razor. It shouldn’t be too hard from there. I didn’t know about the solutions mentioned so that would be more accurate but if your having problems drop me a message. 0.4 is pretty low dosage wise. I’ve came off way more with nothing to help and subs are not the worst to come off. Compared to other opiates they are the easiest to come off imo if that is your intention. Best of luck. 
 

Raskolnikov.

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8 hours ago, Raskol said:

Cutting into eighths is actually pretty easy with a razor. It shouldn’t be too hard from there. I didn’t know about the solutions mentioned so that would be more accurate but if your having problems drop me a message. 0.4 is pretty low dosage wise. I’ve came off way more with nothing to help and subs are not the worst to come off. Compared to other opiates they are the easiest to come off imo if that is your intention. Best of luck. 
 

Raskolnikov.

That's very encouraging to hear thanks. I was very ill from a very fast withdrawal by the Drugs Clinic so that scared me - had to go back up to 0.8 then taper down gradually to 0.4 but I couldn't come off that little bit - mainly because it was helping my chronic fatigue so I didn't want to!   If I have any problems with the cutting I'll get back to you - it's good to know there's support out there😊

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2 hours ago, MargUK said:

That's very encouraging to hear thanks. I was very ill from a very fast withdrawal by the Drugs Clinic so that scared me - had to go back up to 0.8 then taper down gradually to 0.4 but I couldn't come off that little bit - mainly because it was helping my chronic fatigue so I didn't want to!   If I have any problems with the cutting I'll get back to you - it's good to know there's support out there😊

I have a friend, well my wife’s friend actually with chronic fatigue and she was not getting any treatment that helped. She started self medicating with Modafinil and it helped enormously. Not saying it’s a cure but look into it. It may help.

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On 8/20/2021 at 11:12 AM, Raskol said:

I have a friend, well my wife’s friend actually with chronic fatigue and she was not getting any treatment that helped. She started self medicating with Modafinil and it helped enormously. Not saying it’s a cure but look into it. It may help.

Thanks for that - I was able to find someone on the CFS Facebook Group I’m part of whose wife has had great success with it and I’ve been messaging him to get more info.  I’m scared of getting addicted to something else but he says she has an addictive personality and has had no problems with taking it on an as and when needed basis for a year now which is encouraging.  And - familiar story - the NHS apparently won’t prescribe it unless you have narcolepsy so they’re having to buy it from India - it’s ridiculous what we’re forced to do because of doctors who won’t listen to their patients!

The postie’s just been - super impressed - only made the transaction yesterday morning!  Can you help me with the proper abbreviations to leave feedback on PM’s post - despite scouring the forum I haven’t come across anywhere that explains them.  I’m looking for the ones for ordered, paid, received - that sort of thing.  Be really grateful.

Also - one other question - how do you store your parts of tablets once you’ve cut them up and they’re out of the film - does it matter?

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If you go to @PhoneMedic_UK feedback page you will see my last 2 orders on his last page. Just write something similar. The pieces I just put in a Thimble and they are fine. 
 Definitely give the modafinil a try as it has helped lots with your condition.

Glad you got sorted out. Worrying about approaching withdrawal can be as bad as the rattle itself.

 Stay safe,

Raskolnikov.

 

 

 

try

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